bollywood villains--past, changes, patterns, (merged threads) Options

[arnab]

i think it really comes down to prem chopra, ajit (not sanzgiri) and amjad khan. pran was suitably evil but loses major points for becoming a good guy later in his career. amjad, while perhaps the definitive villain in "sholay", also played good guys in the same general time-frame. prem chopra started as a romantic hero (did ajit as well?) but i think those who've seen any of those movies will likely say that he was creepy there too.

cases could also be made for k.n singh, and also an earlier jaat of nawabi villains. amrish puri scores major points for mogambo in "vidhaata" but loses most of them for his performance as dong in a horrible movie whose name escapes me for the moment (his catchphrase was "dong kabhi wrong nahi hota"). kader khan, shakti kapoor, ranjeet and gulshan grover don't make the cut.

but instead of just picking the "best" villains and so on, it might be more interesting to chart the changing face of the bollywood villain from the 50s on down. anyone want to throw out some patterns to get us started?

[Dilliwala Dilwala]

Offhand, while I wouldn't be able to do a historical perspective with examples, but I think what would emerge is the changing profile of the villain. What is most striking of course is how dapper and dandy almost all the early villains were (cf all the early ones you name, including K.N. Singh or Rahman, who also started off as a hero, as did Loin Ajit, incidentally) and how most of their villainous activities were confined primarily to get the heroine - who almost always helpfully had rich fathers or uncles who had willed them large amounts and empires and so on - to marry them (and not always just to rape or molest them) and because the chocolate faced hero always showed up to harrass them which the films tell us was always instrumental in getting the lady to fall hopelessly in love.

Of course, they generally were involved in hoarding, smuggling, running illicit hooch joints, gambling dens and so on too. In many ways, they were not all black, and sometimes even almost believable in their roles. Even among the daku films, you had Robin Hood type characters and some who just wanted the moll who would invariably spurn them, driving them into murderous rage and so on. But terrorism and so on really changed the villains for the worse and made them into a different unbelievable breed altogether -- the Shakals and the Doctor Dangs, e.g. -- who suddenly seemed to have more grandiose ambitions: nothing less than colonising the entire country and capturing Rashtrapati Bhawan, declaring themselves Emperors and so on, with the help of, gasp, helicopters and machineguns and one or two tapori type flunkies. That was of course before they started dealing in nukes, hard-drugs and so on too.

But aren't you forgetting not-so-dapper and really slimey Jeevan and the oh-so-dapper and dandy Danny Dengzopa? And then ofcourse you have the comic-villains (not talking of the execrable Shakti Kapur or GG etc, but, say, Paresh Rawal in Andaz Apna Apna and even the sad, singing villain: I am thinking Danny in a film the name of which I forget in which he sings real sad and depressing songs before casually killing people and the character in Kabhi Haan Kabhi Naa whose sidekick is always at hand to write down all that he ever utters...

This post has been edited by Dilliwala Dilwala: Aug 7 2004, 06:09 PM

[ajit]

Sadashiv Amrapurkar in 'Ardh Satya'. A totally believable baddy.

[Dilliwala Dilwala]

>>amrish puri scores major points for mogambo in "vidhaata

Wasn't 'Mugambo Khush Hua' in 'Mr India'? Or was he called that in 'Vidhata' too?

[arnab]

[Pratibha]

unlikely villains,

Raj Babbar in "Insaaf ka Taraazu." really creepy.

How about Shah Rukh Khan in "Daar?"

Favorite chocolate faces laced with acid

Pratibha

[poorvi]

My vote is for Amjad, closely followed by Danny.

About the changing face of the villain. A lot of the good guys are getting confused with the villains too - Kaante?

In addition to Darr, Pratibha, there was Baazigar as well. I think SRK did a pretty good job in both.

Poorvi

[sasiankudi]

dilliwala, darn good thinking there on the changing face of the villain.

prem chopra tops my list...

poorvi, you're right. the lines between hero-villain are blurred in many recent bollies. it's the same with the vamp and the heroine, no? the heroine can do that the yesteryear vamp c/would, sometimes even better.

(i miss helen...speaking of her, has anyone seen the film *desperately seeking helen* by the canadian film-maker eisha marjara? it's an interesting autobiographical narrative that weaves the director's fascination with helen with her own anorexia. )

[sasiankudi]

there was also *anjaam* - srk as obssessed lover again (in pursuit of madhuri in this one). i think he falls off the cliff in the climax of the film.

[poorvi]

I also saw Mehbooba, Mehbooba from Sholay recently.

Helen looked quite fit and energetic, which is, somehow, not how I remembered her.

Now that the actress can herself add all the sex value, there's no need for vamps. I can't remember the last movie that had one!

Poorvi

[gingerly]

[gingerly]

[Susan]

[Rumali Roti]

[QUOTE]Gambling dens bacame the favorite villian.

Smugglers too! Often enough the bad guy scene was introduced with the line: "Boss, Maal laya."

[gingerly]

[Susan]

Do most of you buy the offbeat SA films you see, then? I could see myself buying a film I had already seen and liked and thought I'd watch again, but am too kunjoos to buy just on spec. At $40 per movie this could get expensive...

I just requested Netflix to add it, but for all I know their web form sends its mail directly into the dustbin.

[arnab]

[sameet]

regarding how to watch bollywood movies, if you don't have an indian market in your town to rent from, there are numerous websites that sell movies for very cheap. you can google the titles you are looking for, and compare the prices. ebay has consistently come through for me, as well, especially with the larger "epic" type dvds (mahabharat, luv and kush, etc.). i also stock up whenever i go to a city with a large indian community. it tends to be a better and cheaper selection.

[arnab]

[gingerly]

Kitne villain the?

[gingerly]

do we have a winner?

[Mukta Sunit]

Inspired by Arnab's remarks about Shetty in the "Don" thread.

Yeah Shetty was terrorizing for me too. But he doesnt match up to the terror generated by "Jo Durr Gaya, Samzo mar gayaa". Mesmerizing , Ekdum spell-bound effect.

LOVED Prem Chopra for his slimeball depiction . "Prem .......Prem naam hai mera" or some such.

Some marathhi columnist had called Shakti Kapur as "All India Balatkari Sanghatna ka De facto chairman". Nilu Phule in Marathi cinema had a similar reputation.

Mogambo was one hell of an inspiring villan.

Ranjit and the likes were always set up to be made fool of.

Ashok Kumar in jewel-thief was the most unconvincing villan.

A question : Is the institution of a designated bad guy in a hindi movie as we knew it dead ? These days the slick conman seems to be the norm of a hero of a masala movie. (Meaning 9 of every 10 movies). My awareness of the new age movies is dismal, but this is what I gather.

[notsogifted]

Maybe not entirely dead, just lots of heroes (or Primary male character when everyone is a baddie like in Sarkar or Company) with shades of grey. We still have Abhishek Bachchan playing a cop.

Can I list my idea of most dashing bad guy..?

John Abraham on his bike...vrrooom

[Mukta Sunit]

I know this is sacrilege but John Abraham ko acting nahi aati :D He maybe a looker......

[notsogifted]

I know this is sacrilege but John Abraham ko acting nahi aati :D He maybe a looker......

Who said anything about his acting?

Actually that may answer your previous question: if the female contingent starts identifying with the villain more than the hero, the old days are definitely gone.

What about Farouque Sheikh in Katha? That was another bad guy with an interesting take...

[arnab]

in rough chronological order:

k.n singh
rehman
pran
madan puri
ajit

prem chopra
amjad khan
danny (originally supposed to play gabbar)
jeevan

ranjeet
shetty
bob christo

amrish puri
shakti kapoor
gulshan grover

favorite bad guy performance of recent years: irfan khan in "haasil".

[notsogifted]

Shouldn't Jeevan be higher up?

A few more who acted on both sides of the spectrum:

Shriram Lagoo
Raj Babbar (remeber the ghastly "Insaaf Ka Taraazu")
Paresh Rawal
Shafi Inamdar
Anupam Kher
Om Shivpuri

Why do I get the feeling that Naseer and Om Prakash have been bad guys too?

ed. Lagoo not Lagu

This post has been edited by notsogifted: Sep 8 2006, 07:26 PM

[loislane]

Nilu Phule in Marathi cinema had a similar reputation.

I heard somewhere randomly that he was a wonderful do-gooder in real life. Do you know if it is true? On screen he was absolutely creepy.

[notsogifted]

Glad you picked on that. I have read/heard the same thing. Widely respected, etc. No evidence to offer though. Though here Mukta Sunit might be referring to Shakti Kapoor's and Nilu Phule's film contributions, those two differ widely apparently in their personal lives.

Nilu Phule, in my opinion, mastered the leery look. Oh, the creeps...And he acted in a number of Hindi films too.


Ed. sorry, got MS' name wrong

This post has been edited by notsogifted: Sep 8 2006, 07:28 PM

[Mukta Sunit]

Nilu Fule is very well respected in the theater and movie circles. A very humble person in his real life. He is closely associated with the socialist/communist movement in Maharashtra. A big supporter of "Andhashradha Nirmoolan Samiti". Various struggling theater artists (including Atul Pethe) have acknowledged his encouragement and contribution to their work : monetarily and otherwise.

A few roles of his come to mind that have left an impression :

Saamna : The complex character of a local village leader.
Simhasan : He was part of the starcast
Pinjara : A memorable performance; yet another duel with Dr. Lagoo.


On theater front a few highlights :

Premachi Goshta : An important play by Shyam Manohar. Again a milestone performance with Dr. Lagoo.
Sooryast : A play by Jaywant Dalvi with Phule at the central character of a disillusioned feedom fighter.