 chandradhar sharma guleri's "sukhmay jivan", translated by prasenjit gupta |
Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register ) · View New Posts
  |
| arnab |
 Jun 22 2005, 01:06 PM
Post
#1
|
 bandwidth glutton Group: founding members Posts: 14726 Joined: 21-July 04 From: northfield, minnesota Member No.: 1  |
another subcontinent presents our latest feature: chandradhar sharma guleri's short story "sukhmay jivan" -- translated from hindi as "the happy life" by prasenjit gupta. this feature is now live on our home site. we invite your thoughts and feedback on it here.
-------------------- yeh sab kya ho raha hai, beta duryodhan? arnab@anothersubcontinent.com |
   |
 
|
| Swati |
Jun 22 2005, 09:23 PM
Post
#2
|
 member Group: bandwidth eaters Posts: 1187 Joined: 18-August 04 Member No.: 95 |
I have almost never read any translations of Hindi fiction. A few stories of Ismat Chugtai rendered in English, but that's about it. So it is a fascinating experience reading the story, because I constantly kept translating the idioms back to Hindi in my head. For example:
"Ram's arrow benefits" - Ram baan laabh (davaai?) "The solitary pea cannot burst the bowl." - Akela chana bhaad nahin phod sakta Now what's interesting to me is that to truly appreciate the meaning of these idioms when translated into English you have to be familiar with the Hindi original. In fact, this is what I felt about the story as a whole. The translation is very competent, but a very faithful rendition of the Hindi original. So there is a certain quaintness to the story. Guleri makes reference to contemporary Bengali fiction in the character of Kamla, who would not be out of place in a Saratchandra novel, what with her Brahmo upbringing and education. Quite fascinating is the fact that certain articles of clothing are such immediate signifiers of social status and values. As soon as I read about the Gara (Parsi) saree, I knew the heroine has to be from a reformist, Brahmo-inspired family. I believe the Gara sarees were quite popular with the women from liberal families in Bengal as well. Also delightful is the scene of confrontation between the narrator and Kamla that parodies the high-faluting praises showered on the heroine in Sanskrit drama. I'm sure that part sounds absolutely hilarious in Hindi. But I think most of the sarcasm in the story is directed towards the narrator, a fairly familiar figure in the contemporary Hindi and Bengali fiction, the highly educated, reform-minded hero, inspired by Western ideas, yet tradition-bound in crucial areas (note the reference to the heroine's caste, I believe Tagore's Gora had similar dilemmas, so did Premchand's hero in Rangbhumi). Thanks Prasenjit, for providing the translation. Looking forward to more. |
|
|
|
| arnab |
Jun 22 2005, 09:53 PM
Post
#3
|
||
|
bandwidth glutton Group: founding members Posts: 14726 Joined: 21-July 04 From: northfield, minnesota Member No.: 1 |
as i mentioned earlier, i am currently slowly reading prasenjit's translations of nirmal verma's stories of exile/displacement ("indian errant"). from his extensive translator's notes there and from other conversations i know that this is generally his translation strategy: to resist the call of the "smooth" translation which seems like it was written in the target language. i wonder what the experience must feel like for the non-hindi speaker/reader (who would generally be the addressed audience). like most non-specialists, i'd imagine, the only guleri story i'd ever read was "usne kaha thha"--which was in the hindi collection we had to read for the icse class 10 board exams. that is such a different story that i was quite surprised by this one; especially by how funny it is. the characters are so deftly drawn and described and the satire is both so exact and yet generous. i can visualize kamla's father merely from the few lines about his appearance and manner. that these things come through without the loss of the feel of hindi is tribute to prasenjit's skill as a translator. can anyone explain why kamla refers to her father as chacha-ji? -------------------- yeh sab kya ho raha hai, beta duryodhan? arnab@anothersubcontinent.com |
||
|
|
|
||
| Pratibha |
Jun 22 2005, 10:06 PM
Post
#4
|
||
 member Group: bandwidth eaters Posts: 1740 Joined: 27-July 04 Member No.: 15 |
I just discovered this. I had not read the stroy in Hindi and yes, i do get the flavor of Hindi from the almost literal translation. Good job Prasenjit. I enjoyed reading it. One thing about Hindi writers is the long run-on sentences, such as the following. I wonder how non-hindi readers feel about these. Breaking them into smaller ones would lose the flavor of the original language and not breaking them makes for the awkward sentences.
pratibha |
||
|
|
|
||
| seajay |
Jun 22 2005, 11:11 PM
Post
#5
|
||||
 bandwidth eater Group: moderators Posts: 2254 Joined: 22-July 04 Member No.: 7 |
That reads smoothly to me -- but then I have been known to write pgh-long sentences myself. Maybe the tendency seeped into the pores during childhood  .The "pea/bowl" reads a little awkwardly to me, although I realize this is the translator's intent. I am not sure that I agree with this stance, but it is not a big obstacle to enjoying the story for one who is motivated to do so. And it is the only such stumbling block in the translation -- to my ears. No doubt there is a level of enjoyment a non-Hindi speaker would miss, but there's plenty left over for us to relish. cj -------------------- have you no sense
plenty of it he answered but at times we get tired of using it |
||||
|
|
|
||||
| ashima0 |
Jun 23 2005, 03:57 AM
Post
#6
|
|
member Group: maha contributors Posts: 268 Joined: 8-August 04 Member No.: 71 |
Utter delight! I have not read Guleri's other work but the verve and humor of this piece comes through wonderfully in the translation. Though I'm a Hindi speaker I wasn't at any point doing literal translations like Swati but I guess the logic of Ram's arrow was definitely helped by prior cultural knowledge.
But the humor/ characterization, none of that is limited by the translation. Like CJ I'm also a devotee of run-on sentences so loved the overall rhythm and flavor of the language here. Great job, Prasenjit! If I do have a bone to pick it's probably with Guleri - doesn't the ending arrive too patly, so to say? I also didn't like the fast-forward authorial comments at this point. Too much the jolly KK movie type (with Saratchandra overtones if you like) to my literary taste. PS - 'helpmeet' now that is an old-fashioned term. |
|
|
|
| Pratibha |
Jun 23 2005, 06:37 AM
Post
#7
|
|
member Group: bandwidth eaters Posts: 1740 Joined: 27-July 04 Member No.: 15 |
Ashima and seajay, my comment about run-on sentences was based on my attempts at translating. I had run into a paragraph long sentence in a Hindi story, and that sentence packed the whole philosophy of the story, so it was very tricky. I was not criticizing.
pratibha |
|
|
|
| moazzam |
Jun 23 2005, 06:53 AM
Post
#8
|
 maha contributor Group: founding members Posts: 721 Joined: 22-July 04 Member No.: 5 |
haaN to Gupta saheb,
tell us what made you choose this story. my other question: did the protagonist write the book Happy Life in english in the hindi short story? or is it a hindi book? if so, would you mind sharing the title. or is it sukhmay jeevan? if so, did you contemplate keeping it (say in italics) in hindi with a footnote? congratulations (for responding to my questions too  also, could you elaborate on the writer's choice of word 'shaitan'. and, of course, your choice to keep it as it is in hindi. yours in solidarity, - moazzam -------------------- "The end of the Soviet-U.S. rivalry will not end the pattern of warfare or violence because the real issue will remain: control of resources.
(Eqbal Ahmad) |
|
|
|
| bhaaskar |
Jun 23 2005, 10:50 AM
Post
#9
|
||
 member Group: maha contributors Posts: 412 Joined: 3-August 04 Member No.: 50 |
i got the impression that the title of his book was sukh(a?)may jivan and hence the title skukhmay jivan. am i wrong?  Along the line of moazzam's question,I am curious to know kamla (isn't it kamala?)'s pen name in hindi. This post has been edited by bhaaskar: Jun 23 2005, 10:51 AM |
||
|
|
|
||
| champa |
Jun 24 2005, 06:34 AM
Post
#10
|
 member Group: bandwidth eaters Posts: 2616 Joined: 23-November 04 Member No.: 191 |
prasenjit,
congratulations on the NEA. wonderful thing. cute story. something like mark twain but quieter. can you tell us for how long did you work on the translation and any particular challenges you faced? -------------------- Show me your jalwa . . .
"When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras, unless, of course, you're in Africa." |
|
|
|
| prasenjit gupta |
Jun 24 2005, 06:38 AM
Post
#11
|
|
member Group: regular contributors Posts: 92 Joined: 22-July 04 Member No.: 6 |
Thanks, all, for your comments.
Moazzam, I picked this story because I enjoyed reading it and wanted to try and get the comic tone across. The title of the book is indeed Sukhmay Jivan. I tried to make this clear by using this, and its translation, at the top of the translated story. I kept "shaitan" because I thought some people might recognize it. I might have translated it too, but I think it's okay (and perhaps even enjoyable for some readers) to have some untranslated words as long as the general sense is clear from the context. Kamla vs. Kamala: I prefer to transliterate from the sound of the original, and I would say Kam-la instead of Ka-ma-la. Maybe most Hindi speakers would? Similarly, Sukhmay vs. sukhamay (or, in fact, sukhamaya). Her pen-name is "Sakhi." Thanks for reading the story! --Prasenjit -------------------- "Thy centuries follow each other perfecting a small wild flower."
--Rabindranath |
|
|
|
| ajit |
Jun 24 2005, 11:32 AM
Post
#12
|
 bandwidth eater Group: founding members Posts: 4926 Joined: 21-July 04 Member No.: 2 |
I prefer the 'literalist' translation in a story such as this. It distances the reader appropriately from the subject. Putting him/her (me ?) in a deceptive proximity with a 'foreign' setting would create a sort of cognitive dissonance.
The story reminds me of another somewhat similar story by a Marathi humour writer (Padmakar Davre) called 'The earth is round' (Prithvi gol aahe) in which two young reform minded individuals - boy and girl - meet in college. They have views considered radical in Indian society in the 30s-40s and are delighted to discover another like minded and attractive person. They get married and befrore long end up adapting and becoming precisely the kind of people they previously looked down on. However in doing so they remain deeply in love. |
|
|
|
| samir |
Jun 24 2005, 12:27 PM
Post
#13
|
|
member Group: maha contributors Posts: 723 Joined: 27-July 04 Member No.: 20 |
Prasenjit,
Thanks for the story. Irrelevant question---are their Brahmos in areas outside of Bengal? Not that the places described in the story have to be situated at a well-known place. Swati, can you shed some light on the Paris-style sari and Brahmos? I believe Jnanandanandini Devi (Satyendranath Tagore's wife) while in Maharashtra, adapted Parsi and Gujarati style of wearing sari and introduced that style in Kolkata which later on became the Bengali style of wearing sari. But then what is the non-Brahmo style like? (Is it the style adopted by older women--without the folds?) A car, well, an iron-horse :-) accident and the sudden appearance of a modern Brahmo woman---reminds the opening of "Gora" and the fateful accident in Sesher Kavita. Prasenjit, we want more! Samir |
|
|
|
| prasenjit gupta |
Jun 24 2005, 06:44 PM
Post
#14
|
||
|
member Group: regular contributors Posts: 92 Joined: 22-July 04 Member No.: 6 |
Champa, thank you. Loved that photo of Helen! I worked on this a long time ago--don't really remember how long I spent on it. As for challenges, idioms and metaphors are always difficult--and sometimes the translations don't quite work, such as the pea/bowl that struck CJ as awkward. And for me the greatest challenge is to try to convey the tone of the original while staying close to the text. Prasenjit -------------------- "Thy centuries follow each other perfecting a small wild flower."
--Rabindranath |
||
|
|
|
||
| Swati |
Jun 24 2005, 09:06 PM
Post
#15
|
||
|
member Group: bandwidth eaters Posts: 1187 Joined: 18-August 04 Member No.: 95 |
Samirda, Actually, I was thinking of the Parsi style in terms of the look of the saree itself, dyed a single colour with a richly embroidered border being the only embellishment. I believe this sort of saree is called a Gara saree and considered a heirloom piece in Parsi families. I recall seeing such sarees in photographs from the late 19th and early 20th century of Bengali women. I don't think all of them were Brahmos, so perhaps the saree was popular among other women as well. When worn by women from other parts of the country, I believe it indicated the more progressive upbringing of the woman. As far as the actual style of wearing the saree is concerned, I did not know that the Brahmo women had adopted the Parsi-Gujarati style of draping. That's really fascinating information. I do know that Brahmo women had to innovate the saree when they started appearing in public to attend schools and universities, etc. The traditional Bengali drape was worn without a blouse and revealed a fair bit of skin. Curiously the Brahmo women would be covered from head to toe (chemise modified as a blouse, and socks and shoes) and yet face charges of obscenity (nirlajjo). Perhaps we should have a separate thread on the topic of dress reform, there are similar stories from North Indian Muslim women, women in Kerala, etc. Great that you mentioned "Gora" and "Shesher Kobita", the Bengali influence is unmistakable. Also, I thought of Sharatchandra's "Datta". |
||
|
|
|
||
| seajay |
Jun 24 2005, 10:39 PM
Post
#16
|
||
|
bandwidth eater Group: moderators Posts: 2254 Joined: 22-July 04 Member No.: 7 |
Oh, I didn't mean to imply that the translation didn't work! I thoroughly enjoyed it, with the expanding pea and all! As far as "resistance" in translation, vs whatever its opposite is called, I'm probably somewhere in the middle. Keeping some words from the original language (like "shaitan"), and a sense of the flavor & rhythmic patterns (if possible) is definitely desirable, and I'd think that one of the primary challenges for any translator would be to balance that with readability in the target language. As to Ajit's point about distancing the foreign reader from the setting, well, yes, of course. In this tale, the entire cultural milieu is different, every circumstantial detail in the story is something not found in most of the "Anglo-glot" world. And some, as the discussion of Parsi saris & the Brahmos reveals, are not found (or are not common) even in the same geographical area in contemporary times. Also, I think humor is especially difficult to translate, since it depends so much on particulars and incongruities, and I thought you did a splendid job of conveying those, the self-mocking narrator especially. cj edited for typo This post has been edited by seajay: Jun 25 2005, 12:57 AM -------------------- have you no sense
plenty of it he answered but at times we get tired of using it |
||
|
|
|
||
| armagod |
Jun 24 2005, 11:04 PM
Post
#17
|
 member Group: bandwidth eaters Posts: 3281 Joined: 2-August 04 From: london Member No.: 38 |
Nice translation, definitely had that Hindi voice in parallel in my head. The spinning-wheel image is probably another idiom that's somewhat culturally specific, I had to pause for a second before I understood it.
I'm curious about the punctuation, did you try to retain a flavour of that or is it very different in the original? -------------------- "Jiggery pokery, trickery chokery,
How did he open me up? Robbery! Muggery! Aussie skull-duggery! Out for a buggering duck." |
|
|
|
| seajay |
Jun 25 2005, 03:13 AM
Post
#18
|
||
|
bandwidth eater Group: moderators Posts: 2254 Joined: 22-July 04 Member No.: 7 |
more on this & punctuation in various languages here -------------------- have you no sense
plenty of it he answered but at times we get tired of using it |
||
|
|
|
||
| samir |
Jun 25 2005, 07:54 AM
Post
#19
|
||
|
member Group: maha contributors Posts: 723 Joined: 27-July 04 Member No.: 20 |
The entry for Jnanandanandini Devi in "Rabindranather Atmiya-swajan" ('Relatives of Rabindranath') has some interesting info: When tutors started coming to the women's quarters then they had to devise some dress. First came something called "peshowaaj"-type of dress [don't know what that is]--apparently that was designed (planned?) by Debendranath Tagore. Later Satyendranath took his wife to Bombay (by ship) against some opposition from Debendranath. There JD did some experiments and came up with a style following "Parsi saree and blouses [jaamaa] and the Gujrati-style of draping, but changing it somewhat (instead of the right shoulder, the anchal is placed on the left shoulder)". This style gradually has been adopted all over Bengal. After coming back to Calcutta, she had placed an ad somewhere announcing that she would teach anyone who would come to her at Jorasanko. Some Saudamini Gupta took up that offer. Samir |
||
|
|
|
||
| moazzam |
Jun 25 2005, 11:10 PM
Post
#20
|
|
maha contributor Group: founding members Posts: 721 Joined: 22-July 04 Member No.: 5 |
thanks for your repsonses, Prasenjit.
my intrigue persists: i understand, if you were to translate the word shaitan to satan, you'd lose cultural connotation and context. for example, in urdu/hindi/punjabi someone may say (if the journey is too long): safar [or faasla] to shaitan ki aaNt ho gya hai. (now, it would be interesting to see how and from what literature shaitan acquired an intestine but, in the story, it's quranic/islamic connotation calls attention to it, not in a negative way. it enriches it in fact. but, considering we are reading in a Brahmo Samaj context: would like to comment? or am i fighting shadows here? - moazzam -------------------- "The end of the Soviet-U.S. rivalry will not end the pattern of warfare or violence because the real issue will remain: control of resources.
(Eqbal Ahmad) |
|
|
|
| prasenjit gupta |
Jun 26 2005, 08:12 AM
Post
#21
|
||
|
member Group: regular contributors Posts: 92 Joined: 22-July 04 Member No.: 6 |
I don't remember if I thought about preserving the punctuation when I was translating the story--it was a while ago--but looking at the first couple of paragraphs now, I find several places where I've kept a dash, a semicolon, etc., precisely where it stands in the Hindi. I'm pleasantly surprised, because sometimes I do change the punctuation, even combine sentences, etc., in order to preserve the tone of the original. (It's often a trade-off between staying utterly faithful and trying to achieve similar effects of tone and mood.) Armagod, thanks for the question. Prasenjit -------------------- "Thy centuries follow each other perfecting a small wild flower."
--Rabindranath |
||
|
|
|
||
| arnab |
Jun 30 2005, 10:40 AM
Post
#22
|
|
bandwidth glutton Group: founding members Posts: 14726 Joined: 21-July 04 From: northfield, minnesota Member No.: 1 |
prasenjit,
if i may ask a question as well: what are the factors that go into your selection of a piece to translate? what drew you to this story, for example? thanks, arnab -------------------- yeh sab kya ho raha hai, beta duryodhan? arnab@anothersubcontinent.com |
|
|
|
| prasenjit gupta |
Jul 1 2005, 08:39 PM
Post
#23
|
|
member Group: regular contributors Posts: 92 Joined: 22-July 04 Member No.: 6 |
Arnab,
For the Nirmal Verma collection I was looking for a particular theme--exile--and picked stories around that theme. For the Ashapurna Debi collection (current project), I'm picking the stories that most appeal to me: stories that provide a real situation, an insight into character, a moment of epiphany (and most of her stories do). In general, that's what I translate: stories I admire, stories I wish I could write myself. (I suppose my translations are a way of doing exactly that: writing the stories I wish I'd written.) Sometimes I do read a story and think, nothing like this is available in English translation, or the translations I've read do absolutely no justice to this, and so I'm tempted to try and do better. Sometime I can, and sometimes I can't. I tried a few poems from Sukumar Ray's Abol Tabol, for example, because I didn't find any adequate translations (the few by Satyajit were excellent, but not close enough to the Bengali for my taste), and I think I really succeeded in only one poem. I did this Guleri story when some years ago I was trying to pull together a collection of comic stories from Hindi (an unfinished, or let's say ongoing, project), and this one appealed to me. There were a couple of Premchand stories too, and one by Upendranath Ashk, which I really liked. I don't know if there's any such collection available yet, so I'm hoping I can still make that project happen! Prasenjit -------------------- "Thy centuries follow each other perfecting a small wild flower."
--Rabindranath |
|
|
|
|
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:
| Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 21st November 2009 - 06:14 AM |
Invision Power Board
v2.1.7 © 2009 IPS, Inc.