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> "we should know how to live in a crowd", a conversation with githa hariharan
arnab
post Sep 8 2005, 08:38 AM
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another subcontinent presents our latest feature: "we should know how to live in a crowd", a conversation with githa hariharan. this feature is now live on our home site. we invite your thoughts and feedback on it here.


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hibiscus
post Sep 8 2005, 11:26 AM
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What a excellent interview, Arnab. Hariharan struck a chord right from page 1 with
QUOTE
for a long time I imagined that I had to write about certain things, and all with a visible "political perspective"

It just feels like she's articulating exactly what one thinks of at that stage in one's life.

I've always liked Hariharan for being more "real", almost instantly identifiable with as "someone like me", and this chat just reinforces that. She and Deshpande are possibly the two writers I'd say are unpretentious, based on what they say outside of their work (interviews and essays etc).

I particularly loved
QUOTE
...even though fundamentalists everywhere are not great readers, I did get some signals of disapproval...
laugh.gif laugh.gif

It must have been pretty thrilling for you as a reader and a teacher of her work, to talk to her like this. Am looking forward to the other interviews. smile.gif

Ed to add:
I was actually in the middle of reading the interview when I posted the above... it just gets better!
QUOTE
if you kill yearning because it's impossible or naïve, you might as well lie down and die
I love that, absolutely love it.

Am in serious danger of gushing here, so better stop. biggrin.gif

But this I must say, that it is a very refreshing pleasure, given some of the dreadfully uninformed tripe that passes for interviews sometimes, to read one such as this.

This post has been edited by hibiscus: Sep 8 2005, 01:02 PM


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frangipani
post Sep 8 2005, 05:50 PM
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QUOTE (hibiscus @ Sep 8 2005, 12:56 AM)
Am in serious danger of gushing here, so better stop. biggrin.gif

But this I must say, that it is a very refreshing pleasure, given some of the dreadfully uninformed tripe that passes for interviews sometimes, to read one such as this.

Ditto.

Excellent interview, Arnab! I almost felt I was in the background with a cup of chai in the garden, nodding to things she said. What a measured, thoughtful voice. Very assured about her work and objectives, at the same time, I thought, very straightforward.

I liked the discussion on reception/location of writers and Indian/English writing (was reminded of Hibiscus' idli description!). Not because it said anything particularly new, but because she put it so well:

QUOTE
I don't think it is very interesting or useful to go on and on about how Indian writers in English get more attention and so on. Obviously, there is a relationship between English and power; Indian academics in English get more attention, so do papers and TV news channels in English -- it is like saying the upper class gets more attention. So it is something you should acknowledge quickly and move on to more interesting issues: such as what are some of the ways we can actually not throw out English but counterbalance it with more attention to other languages, more ways of sharing power. There's no point in just whipping English (usually in English). Remember the example of West Bengal, where people were very angry when English as the medium of instruction was thrown out -- you can't decide for people. But of course we have to try and find ways of moving towards a point where Indian literatures are, as a matter of routine, represented by a multiplicity of voices and languages. Finally, it is for Indian writers and readers and academics to achieve this. Maybe for a start we could start taking our own opinions as seriously as we take those in the Guardian or The New Yorker. If we could do this without being jingoistic we may learn some self-confidence.


Very well said, and very, very true.

I also found her thoughts on literature and the recovery of the past very interesting; both in the context of her own work and her discussion of Ghosh.
QUOTE
And he has the substructure of the research showing
Good way of describing how he tried to bring reality and fiction together in GP.


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Jai Malhar
post Sep 8 2005, 06:48 PM
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Excellent interview.

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kristin
post Sep 8 2005, 07:19 PM
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Very interesting interview. I haven't read any of her work so this opens up another bunch of books I look forward to reading very soon.

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arnab
post Sep 8 2005, 07:38 PM
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QUOTE (kristin @ Sep 8 2005, 07:49 AM)
Very interesting interview.  I haven't read any of her work so this opens up another bunch of books I look forward to reading very soon.

kristin

most of githa's books are available from amazon (click here) and at indiaclub.com (click here).

i'm glad you're all enjoying the interview. one of the things that thankfully doesn't come across in the transcript is just how non-fluent i was in posing my questions and comments--there is no future in television interviewing for me, i'm afraid. githa, on the other hand, is exactly the thoughtful, measured person live that she reads like in the transcript. i am also not sure if one gets a sense from the transcript of just how pleasurable the conversation was. we spoke for more than 90 minutes and the time just flew by.

she is a very busy person but i am hopeful that she may be able to take some time to participate in this discussion and possibly even take a few follow-up questions.

This post has been edited by arnab: Sep 8 2005, 08:47 PM


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sagar
post Sep 8 2005, 08:57 PM
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great interview, arnab. this prompts me to definitely read her work.
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Anjali
post Sep 8 2005, 09:05 PM
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A wonderful, and if I may say, erudite interview-- and I mean that as a high compliment. I interviewed Karnad the last time I was there and not only was I not prepared with the kind of complex questions you ask here, but I couldn't follow up as well as you did here either. A good lesson on interviewing for me, this one. Also, loved the way you use part of her quote
QUOTE
Really, we should know how to live in a crowd -- for god's sake! -- given the Indian experience.

as a title for the interview. Great metaphor for what she is trying to say throughout.


I think that what I was struck wth most was the immense humility of the writer. She consistently refuses to be a spokesperson, the figurehead for any one viewpoint:
QUOTE
My friend Sujit Mukerjee who wrote wonderfully on translation, used to call them dwarapalikas.

biggrin.gif
QUOTE
And that applies not just to "women writers" but when you are elsewhere, to "Indian writers" as well. Of course, you are sometimes forced into a situation where you "represent" Indian women, or women writers, or Indian writers. But I do feel uncomfortable even when I see I have to do this sometimes. It's all too easy to assume this role of spokesperson because of your class background or the little space you have got on the public stage.



I am most curious about her connection to Ramanujan, of course. She mentions that he was the primary influence and also that Karnad was another one:
QUOTE
In terms of direct or conscious influence though, I think I would put A.K. Ramanujan top of the list. The tale as a protagonist is an idea that permeates all his retellings. Girish Karnad's ability to mine old stories for our times is also something I learnt a lot from.

And later she says:
QUOTE
It may sound rather romantic-feminist, but really it was the first time in my adult life that I was surrounded by women, an incredible range of them, all of them coming up with all kinds of advice -- and a lot of it was terribly weighed down by myth. There was an example for everything -- like scripture or government documents, there was something applicable to every situation, there was a lot in small print you were just about aware of.

I can see a clear link between this experience with women, with their ability to transport, interpret, retell myths and the work of Ramanujan and Karnad. Would love to hear her expand on this, if possible.


And finally loved her very unassuming and wonderful description of "social commitment," one that avoids all the current cliches:
QUOTE
if you have a high stake in a particular complex of ideas or concepts or whatever -- I am trying not to use the word "culture" because all kinds of people use the word very loosely -- then you want to make certain aspects of it live in a way that is meaningful to you and to your society at large. More than anything you want to be part of a debate with other stakeholders on how we are to refurbish and reinvent what we keep.

Many thanks, Arnab. Now if only you put all those interviews up there soon enough-- can't wait to read them as well.
And if at all Gita Hariharan comes online, can't wait to hear her speak some more.

This post has been edited by Anjali: Sep 8 2005, 09:56 PM


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champa
post Sep 8 2005, 09:18 PM
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good questions, nice interview. great photo. thanks.


so, what was for lunch?


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ajit
post Sep 9 2005, 12:19 AM
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I found intriguing the contrast between the quotes:

QUOTE
We can't be wary of the word feminist because there are people in the world who misunderstand the word or have done disservice to the word -- you can't use most words then!

QUOTE
I am trying not to use the word "culture" because all kinds of people use the word very loosely

.. and later..
QUOTE
Also, on the same tour, I had my first skirmish with this mistaken notion of the writer as an ethnic representative, something like the international face of a culture
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arnab
post Sep 9 2005, 12:28 AM
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QUOTE (ajit @ Sep 8 2005, 12:49 PM)
I found intriguing the contrast between the quotes:

QUOTE
We can't be wary of the word feminist because there are people in the world who misunderstand the word or have done disservice to the word -- you can't use most words then!

QUOTE
I am trying not to use the word "culture" because all kinds of people use the word very loosely

.. and later..
QUOTE
Also, on the same tour, I had my first skirmish with this mistaken notion of the writer as an ethnic representative, something like the international face of a culture

ajit, i don't think there's really a contradiction between the first two quotes. in the case of "feminism" she's claiming it against specific characterizations; in the case of "culture" she's merely indicating that the word doesn't have a clear meaning anymore. i'm not sure what you're contrasting the third quote to?


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ajit
post Sep 9 2005, 12:52 AM
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QUOTE
i'm not sure what you're contrasting the third quote to?


Just that the third quote uses the word 'culture' after all.
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lekha
post Sep 9 2005, 12:13 PM
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thanks, arnab, a delightful conversation, and an important one too, no? your students will really benefit.
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hibiscus
post Sep 9 2005, 12:20 PM
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QUOTE (arnab @ Sep 8 2005, 10:08 PM)
i am also not sure if one gets a sense from the transcript of just how pleasurable the conversation was.

Yes, one does! I'm sure that contributed to the quality of the interview.


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arnab
post Sep 9 2005, 08:54 PM
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all,

i checked with githa and she said that she will be happy to answer a few follow-up questions from our members. if you post them here i will communicate them to her and post her responses.

arnab


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Anjali
post Sep 15 2005, 09:55 PM
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Arnab, here is a question for Gita Hariharan:

As you say, Ramanujan has been an inspiration for many writers in India. Girish Karnad, for example, claims him as one of the most important influences on his work. But Ramanujan’s translations/collections of folklore must have impacted Karnad’s work differently, I imagine, than yours. So, can you speak more about your connection to Ramanujan’s work? Which aspect of his oeuvre—proverbs/folkore, Tamil translations, English poetry, Kannada poetry—has been the most influential and in what manner?

This post has been edited by Anjali: Sep 15 2005, 10:05 PM


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vAtraT
post Sep 15 2005, 11:35 PM
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What? So now I'm supposed to read up on Gita Hariharan, too?
Damn.
Suppose I want to read that ONE representative book that'll give me a zhuluck of what she's about, so I can appear well-read at the next gathering of Beautiful People, what would you recommend? (I promise to follow it up with more of her soon after, I promise.)

The way you all are prostrating in front of her, a read seems essential.

I note, from a brief browse on the Web, whatever her literary merits, that she successfully sued the supreme court in India to equalize SOME aspects of the status of women (vs. men) in the family.
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arnab
post Sep 15 2005, 11:50 PM
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vatrat, a good way to start would be to make your way through the stories in "the art of dying". "the thousand faces of night" is my favorite of her novels--something she was ambivalent about hearing before the interview proper began!


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champa
post Sep 16 2005, 01:30 AM
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i would love to see her discuss "'in times of siege." from concept to final draft.
one review
QUOTE
B : political correctness in India, decently done

are her books taught in colleges in india?


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frangipani
post Sep 16 2005, 01:33 AM
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I also have a question for Githa:

Could you talk a little more about "remembrance" and the importance/uses of the past in your work? I agree that it is an important theme, and also one that is very much present in our political landscape, but I'm curious about how you see the work of literature with respect to this representation of the past, as opposed to history. Is what Ghosh has done in Glass Palace one way to tell forgotten histories, but more effectively than historians would?

I have another question about Basava, too, but for later!


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arnab
post Sep 16 2005, 01:46 AM
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QUOTE (champa @ Sep 15 2005, 02:00 PM)
i would love to see her discuss "'in times of siege." from concept to final draft.

champa, i think you might want to narrow your question down a little...


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champa
post Sep 16 2005, 03:25 AM
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QUOTE (arnab @ Sep 15 2005, 03:16 PM)
QUOTE (champa @ Sep 15 2005, 02:00 PM)
i would love to see her discuss "'in times of siege." from concept to final draft.

champa, i think you might want to narrow your question down a little...

ok, let me try again.
QUOTE

Githa Hariharan: Exactly. Being a writer and a feminist doesn't mean you write tracts and pretend they are novels.


for someone like her, an activist, a person with strong convictions, it must be difficult to maintain distance between writer, author, and the narrative. i think she balanced these with finesse in her work The Art of Dying, which can be with justification described a splendid piece of feminist ficiton. it seems to me it did not work so well in the novel, ITS. would it be fair to descibe it as polemic novel?
did she have any particular difficulty while writing the novel in that respect?





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Nichiro
post Sep 16 2005, 06:29 AM
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Would it not be appropriate if we learn ,

"How to leave the crowd ?"


Ed: to add "not"

This post has been edited by Nichiro: Sep 16 2005, 06:31 AM


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arnab
post Sep 22 2005, 11:19 PM
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i have sent githa the questions posted here. she will unfortunately not be able to respond till monday at the earliest and asks for everyone's indulgence. she fell down some stairs and cannot sit at a computer just yet.


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arnab
post Sep 26 2005, 10:53 PM
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QUOTE (Anjali @ Sep 15 2005, 10:25 AM)
Arnab, here is a question for Gita Hariharan:

As you say, Ramanujan has been an inspiration for many writers in India. Girish Karnad, for example, claims him as one of the most important influences on his work. But Ramanujan’s translations/collections of folklore must have impacted Karnad’s work differently, I imagine, than yours. So, can you speak more about your connection to Ramanujan’s work? Which aspect of his oeuvre—proverbs/folkore, Tamil translations, English poetry, Kannada poetry—has been the most influential and in what manner?

herewith githa's answers to the three questions i forwarded to her. she apologizes for the brevity of the responses--she is only able to sit at the computer for a few minutes each day.

githa:

QUOTE
My first exposure to Ramanujan’s work was when I was still an undergraduate in Bombay in the early seventies. His translations of vacanas, Speaking of Siva, traveled with me over the years till I used the Basava translations directly in In Times of Siege. In between, there were some very important lessons his work taught me: the way in which stories grow from generation to generation, from region to region, from one voice to another. My first three novels use the tale as the central protagonist, and much of my narrative strategy – including “retelling to the point of invention” – owes a debt to Ramanujan the curator of tales as well as the expert on the relationship between different bodies of tales and their tellers – say the kitchen tales and the grander, more “public” myths. 


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arnab
post Sep 26 2005, 11:30 PM
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QUOTE (frangipani @ Sep 15 2005, 02:03 PM)
I also have a question for Githa:

Could you talk a little more about "remembrance" and the importance/uses of the past in your work? I agree that it is an important theme, and also one that is very much present in our political landscape, but I'm curious about how you see the work of literature with respect to this representation of the past, as opposed to history. Is what Ghosh has done in Glass Palace one way to tell forgotten histories, but more effectively than historians would?

I have another question about Basava, too, but for later!

githa responds:

QUOTE
Remembrance of public events is a balancing act between individual and collective reconstruction of the past – and this aspect is what literature is particularly equipped to address. Of course history, when written with imagination, also uses individual voices. But the fiction writer can probe the individual doing the remembering in more subtle and in deeper ways – the vulnerabilities involved, and the links between private and public memories.


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Anjali
post Sep 26 2005, 11:45 PM
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QUOTE (arnab @ Sep 26 2005, 10:23 AM)
githa:

QUOTE
My first exposure to Ramanujan’s work was when I was still an undergraduate in Bombay in the early seventies. His translations of vacanas, Speaking of Siva, traveled with me over the years till I used the Basava translations directly in In Times of Siege. In between, there were some very important lessons his work taught me: the way in which stories grow from generation to generation, from region to region, from one voice to another. My first three novels use the tale as the central protagonist, and much of my narrative strategy – including “retelling to the point of invention” – owes a debt to Ramanujan the curator of tales as well as the expert on the relationship between different bodies of tales and their tellers – say the kitchen tales and the grander, more “public” myths. 

What strikes me through the interview (and her reply here) is the conscious thought behind her work and the articulate exposition of it--- in her work and outside. I don't mean to imply it is all dry ideas (she is an amazing wtiter)-- just that she also analyses her own writing so competently.

It has left me wanting to hear more from her.


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arnab
post Oct 5 2005, 10:25 PM
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QUOTE (champa @ Sep 15 2005, 03:55 PM)
for someone like her, an activist, a person with strong convictions, it must be difficult to maintain distance between writer, author, and the narrative. i think she balanced these with finesse in her work The Art of Dying, which can be with justification described a splendid piece of feminist ficiton. it seems to me it did not work so well in the novel, ITS. would it be fair to descibe it as polemic novel?
did she have any particular difficulty while writing the novel in that respect?

i just realized i had missed the second page of the document in which githa had sent the answers. here's her response to champa's question:

QUOTE
I am not sure what you mean by a distance between writer and author, or the author and the narrative. So let me answer this very simply, perhaps too simply! Obviously your judgment guides you to shift from “mode to mode”, for instance, to use language and ideas differently in pamphlets and novels. And the worldview – the politics, if you like -- of a writer permeates the work, regardless of the writer’s actual political engagements in real life.


i am hopeful that githa may have some time later to perhaps take some more questions, but i know she is very busy and trying to catch up with everything else that got put on hold as well when she had her accident.


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yeh sab kya ho raha hai, beta duryodhan?


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post Jul 27 2009, 11:38 AM
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great interview, arnab.

QUOTE(arnab @ Sep 8 2005, 08:38 PM) *

githa, on the other hand, is exactly the thoughtful, measured person live that she reads like in the transcript.

i went for a couple of book readings this weekend and githa hariharan's new book fugitive histories, was one of them. she read a sample of her work from other books as well and had an q & a session with a panelist and the audience. she is amazingly assured in her speech - i have rarely seen such fluency of thought in answering fairly complex questions. so much so that i think the audience found it slightly intimidating - it took a whle to process her last answer and there was such a flurry of questions, i fear we missed out on much she said because of the lack of time to absorb it or to explore what she answered at a deeper level. they were recording it, so if they put up a transcript it would be good.

she began assuring us that we would leave saying "fabulous reader" (or some such term) and that is true - she read excellently, and not too many authors do - made the written word come alive. i wonder if she is one of the writers who sounds even better read than written. read by her, that is, because she is definitely very comfortable with performing - had the audience eating out of her hand with charm and witty answers.


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