ikramullah's "le gayi pavan ura", translated by moazzam sheikh Options

[arnab]

another subcontinent presents our latest feature: ikramullah's short story "le gayi pavan ura" -- translated from urdu as "the wind carried it all away" by moazzam sheikh. this feature is now live on our home site. we invite your thoughts and feedback on it here.

[frangipani]

What a wrenching story! the mohalla, the crowd, the sun, the clinic waiting room were very evocative, especially the claustrophobia of it all. thanks for bringing it to us, Moazzam, and i really liked the translation, all the words tumbling over each other (if that makes sense) just as his thoughts and memories were. Some passages were especially beautiful:

[moazzam]

thanks for reading the story, Frangipani.

well, one obvious reason was that i liked this story more than i liked the others in the same collection. i have also translated the title story jungle which is included in my letter from india. one of the other reasons is that i found the style in which it is written, a long monologue yet it is not aimed at another person. it is the whirwind inside his mind that takes the shape of a monologue and it plays with both linearity and circularity. it also shed light on how hindus and muslims lived before partition. also, it was a challenge on syntax, grammer and vocabulary levels.

i know the author very well. whenever he visits the bay area, he can't wait to get away from his son's place in the dull davis/sacramento area and enjoy his drink with (or mostly around) me. He is a very well read and humble man and it is always a pleasure to listen to him about urdu, ancient indian literature, farsi, and european literature in the same breath. we do clash on several issues, but it is mostly because of our age difference and because modern scholarship doesn't reach writers of the older generation, so most writers of his age are stuck with a general assumption of knowledge that was given to them by the brits, while often they don't know it.

prior to meeting him i had read his very fine novella titled ik janam aur, written in four sections, two (1 and 3) from the pov of the protagonist and two (2 & 4) from the protagonist's ex-wife's lawyer's pov. also, whenever we meet, he tells me so many inside stories of the world called urdu, which cannot be shared here.

- moazzam

[frangipani]

"whirlwind" inside the mind puts it very well, I think, and it's brought out very well. I wish I could read it in the original, but unless it's written in Nagari that's impossible! But I must take a look at your Letters..

btw, I am still curious about the "bhagwan".

Also, the story needs a last edit: a couple of words are missing in a couple of places?

[ajit]

Moazzam, I find this rambling monologue style very common in Hindi/Urdu (perhaps slightly more often in Urdu). Especially the peculiar circumlocutions of logic it contains. To the point that I find it very characteristic of short stories in those languages.

I also find this style carrying over into some of Moazzam's own writings in ENglish.

Am I correct in thinking this style is much less common in other languages ?

[moazzam]

Frangipani,
i hope i didn't take the lord's name in vain!
well, the bhagwan question is an excellent one. my answer is vague and unclear.
i must have felt comfortable keeping bhagwan or allah in as it is wherever i felt it needed to reinforce a certain mood/register of language. you can see i kept allah o akbar, but changed xuda/allah to god in most cases. it is also possible that i felt the character kalu's hindu identity would be lost if it were translated to god or lord.

- moazzam

[moazzam]

Ajit,
could you cite examples ?

what i have detected is what some call the influence of dastan goi/telling. in comparison, hindi diction in fiction is more controlled and better edited. but not all udru is like that; it only gives the impression of being one due to bad/careless editing and proofreading, but that's improving. with time the complexity added to the narrative due to run-on-sentences will be gone.

could it be that the urdu writer both in india and pakistan does not feel comfortable the order of the day and thus tends to write in an unorderly way?

- moazzam

[arnab]

moazzam, i want to also push you a little more to articulate your approach to translation. at the bottom of page 3 on our feature, for instance, you have a character say "gosh". first of all, can you tell me what the original word here is, and then why you chose to translate it into an american word/expression that i don't think is in common usage in pakistan or india?

[twwc]

moazzam, i'm curious -- what is a "cold well"?

[ajit]

Moazzam, I must clarify that my usage of 'rambling' or 'circumlocutions' etc. was not intended to be pejorative. It strikes me as a certain style of story telling.

For instance, the comment in this story about the writer's eyes being the graves of light is a peculiar thing to say. It is a very striking observation (and in its own way both quite logical and yet totally weird) and doesn't really have much to do with the story but sets up a certain 'mood' so to say.

I recall a story you once read about a contest between a 'spitter' and a 'spittee' and that too had the same sort of narrative voice. Rushdie has a similar style especially in writings up to SV.

[moazzam]

hi twwc,
in this particular case it was translated literally from THanDa kuNwaaN. this sort of stuff is/was quite common. in punjabi one would hear THanDi KHoo'i.

arnab,
i feel as if not having come from an english medium background and building my english mostly from the outside of classrooms in america has had an influence on what my ear likes. you are right gosh does stand out, but these street expressions are reaching pakistan. i tend to try translating in modern, crisp, american english; sometimes i overdo it and when friends point out i scale it back a bit. the original is written in a fairly modern urdu idiom and it is only befitting that i approach with modern day english of a common man, not slipping to slang but really the way, say, my friends would speak somewhat if they were caught in a similar situation.

ajit,
i didn't think your comment was pejorative in anyway. i must also say that the influence of joyce cannot be ruled out on writers like ikramullah and his contemporaries even if indirectly. manto wrote about joyce and his ullyses.
the question about rambing and its effectiveness (or the lack thereof) are very valid questions. i still contend that most urdu fiction (of highter quality) is not in this vain. most are realists and formalists.
- moazzam

p.s. the spitter story was a hindi short story titled sadi ka sab se baRa admi kashi nath singh, banares walay.

[moazzam]

two belated responses:

first to arnab.
i don't have immediate access to the urdu version as my boxes are packed away. but i will make an effort - son.

someone kind enough to write backchannel and point out that the road can only reflect not refract light. a good point and thank you. i will look into that. it is possible i made the mistake; or the author choose refraction either on purpose or unconsciously. that rasies interesting questions - such as: should a man in the protagonist's state of mind maintain rationality? if not, then, how far to stretch it?

- moazzam

[twwc]

[arnab]

well, a wet road could refract light, but i think the first step is to see what the original actually says.

there is a saying that translations are never finished, only abandoned. in print it is difficult to come back to an unabandoned translation once it is on paper. the nice thing about translations in a digital medium is that they are always open to revision.

my dream for future translations we might feature is to get the rights to the originals and put them up alongside in their own scripts. that way those who can read both can participate more fully with the translators in continuing the process of translation.

[Sue Darlow]

Hello Moazzam

I enjoyed the story, though I have to say I found it quite restless and difficult to read, as the thoughts darted about. I will probably have to read it a second time.

This kind of writing reminded me of Knut Hamsun's "Hunger" which I admit I read many many years ago. I am not sure if I am right about the similarities, but that's my impression anyway. Basically, the disordered ramblings of a fevered brain, in this case of a man who has just heard his death sentence, in the other case brought about by hunger and failure.

About the language you used in the translation - firstly, I agree it needs a little more editing, as there were a number of basic typos, like sewing maching became sowing machine.

I don't agree that Gosh is (excluisvely) American English, it is very British English, like - Golly!

Also, I wonder if when translating a story set in S Asia from a S Asian language, you couldn't make a concisous decision to use S Asian English? You mention that in fact you tried to keep it in American English, but I would suggest that British English and Indian English would work better. Why? Because, any English spoken in the subcontinent, until quite recently, was an Indian version of British English. So, no one in India speaking English, except those returned from Umrica recently, would refer to a sidewalk, but rather a pavement or (more Indian) footpath. Quite frankly, the word sidewalk in that story jarred in my mind. Perhaps that's because I don't live in America, but I suggest the other two alternatives are better because one is more international (pavement) and the other has more local flavour (footpath). Though I suppose if you were writng for an almost exclusively American audience, it would be OK.

The thing is, there is plenty of "Indian English" in your translation, and it is the mix of this with American English which is the most jarring. Words and phrases like chit, a government's quarter and "He scrutinizes the X-ray against the light for long".

I really don't know if my feeling about this stems from mere prejudice or not. I am exposed to a lot of American English these days, and while I obviously accept it when it is Americans speaking or writing, or when things are being referred to in America, it can be a bit much when used in totally non American contexts, like with this story here. If the story had been about young movers and shakers in contemporary metropolitan Mumbai, maybe it would have been more appropriate.

Anyway, this point is not to detract from the story and translation in general, I don't mean to come across as a sour puss, but comments were solicited!

Sue

PS Do you think the lack of American English would put off American readers? For example, Rohinton Mistry doesn't use American or Canadian English when he writes about Bombay. Do you think that this creates a gulf for his North American readers?

[Rumali Roti]

Interesting point, Sue. Editors make necessary changes, depending on who is publishing the work -- American or English publishing house. So 'railway' gets changed to 'railroad' and 'pavement' to 'sidewalk' in America. There are several automobile words: 'boot,' 'hood,' 'dickie,' 'truck' 'windscreen' that give away the editor's orientation right away.

I've had trouble printing the story--I do not enjoy reading fiction on the computer screen--but I will get to it Moazzam, and get back to you. For now, I have to say, I'm enjoying the Q & A!









Tweaking edits



This post has been edited by roshna: Feb 8 2006, 07:11 PM

[champa]

[moazzam]

arnab,
your suggestion is wonderful, showcasing translation against its original. re: refracting vs dry/wet road. what if his eyes are misty?

sue,
i look forward to your second reading. your comments were very appreciated. i haven't read Hunger yet, but will take a look at it. well, think of it this way: a sewing maching is sowing stitches you're right, that should be fixed. you also make a good point w/ re: sidewalk/footpath. there are a few issues involved here. even if i wanted to make a conscious choice, it wouldn't work for i have lived in the US for over twenty years and have absorbed english as it is spoken here among common people. two, i came from a family and the social environment where urdu/punjabi were too dominant, leaving not much room for english. finally, i think the intro to US english started much earlier in pakistan, and how certain words are used/interchanged depends on the education and exposure of the person. for example, my father had been to the US and Cananda in 1953 on his cinematography fellowship - thus, unlike, gosh's character in shadowlines, i was more aware of life in the US and somewhat familiar with the american way of talking/manners. we didn't have a strong pro-british/babu english culture in our immediate circle. famous tv icon firdaus jamal started doin ciao on tv with his thumb in late seventies/ early eighties i believe. and, to stress the point once again, i primarily translate in ways where my friends, who mostly live in the US, can enjoy it, and secondly to enhance understanding.

roshna,
i hope you have been able to print the story by now

and finally champa,
get used to reading my translations so you can enjoy my original work when it comes out

- moazzam

[twwc]

refraction refers to the bending of light rays or sound waves when they travel from one medium into another. reflection, on the other hand, refers to rays/waves bouncing off the interface between two media.

so a wet road would reflect light. for refraction to occur, the light would have to travel through into the road.

edited to make coherent.

This post has been edited by twwc: Feb 12 2006, 06:52 AM

[moazzam]

twwc,
i am aware of the difference as i studied physics pretty much into 3rd year college before switching to BCom we also heard from our elders that a trickster would show up at village fairs with a bucket full of water displaying an aTThani at the bottom. a crowd would gather around him. if you could toss another aTThani exactly atop the coin in water, you win the aTThani. most would loose since refraction made the coin appear slightly off to where it actually sat. the trickster kept the aTThani that missed its target in water.

anyway, as ghalib said falsafi ko behes meN xuda milta naheeN. or as momin says: zameen kha gayi asmaaN kaise kaise. you can't judge the line on logical parameters. even if the writer/or translator used the word reflection, the idea that's at work is about impermanence of things and their eventual disappearance, both tangible and othewise.

i hope people will frame question at some point aimed at the story as well. getting stuck with translation only would be akin to getting hands on ones lover's undergarments only while the lover gave one the slip

- moazzam

[twwc]

moazzam-bhai, i apologize. my intent was not to lecture, although in retrospect i realize that my earlier post probably comes across that way. i really should be more careful when posting (and editing in this case) :=)

[Sue Darlow]

[moazzam]

hey you,
no need to apologize at all. that never crossed my mind. please speak your mind without any reservation. when you (or anyone else) crosses a line, i'll have it known

- moazzam

[moazzam]

hi Sue,
this could mean that by the time you make it to pakistan
to most footpath is an urdu/punjabi word in the context of a city of life. villages don't have footpaths. footpath has acquired a whole different connotation, a place where homeless sleep for decades, making it their personal property; i believe there has a movie titled footpath either in india or pakistan. sidewalk reflects the intrusion of new vocabulary for the last 30plus years in pakistan.

well, Sue, the italian ciao is a congnate of the urdu kha'o, which tranported itself to the US south when the urdu-speaking punjabis ended up in memphis at the turn of the century and invited the white and black folks to eat with them. there, they'll often tell to Kha'o and at the same time give them chai. with the passage of time, it became chow and we are stuck with it and its farewell ambiguity.

- moazzam

[Trips]

[Sue Darlow]

[ajit]

Sue, Moazzam is making that up.
Ciao really comes from 'jaao'.

[champa]

i thought it was from ba-chao like in "bachao in logon se."

[shahpar]

moazzam ji,
this is not a comment on your translation, but OHMYGOD what a boring story. the thoughts inside masud's head are so morose, shrill and hysterical that i soon lost interest in what he was narrating.

[moazzam]

ah, i am so relieved to know someone is finally reading the story

shahpar, thanks for being honest. but you are right, this story can come off as boring, apart from the reason of one indulging in personal taste. i feel this kind of writing is so far removed from the kind of fiction south asian writers write in english; and some of those who grow up on enid blyton and/or wuthering heights, sydney sheldon or mr chips often cannot relate to the fictional world writers like ikramullah work through.

i personally didn't think this was a masterpiece by any measure - but what it does offer is an insight into inter-religious and class structures in pre-partition india. essential parts of this story would be totally lost on someone who has no knowledge of how to tell apart a muslim name from a hindu one, for example. the story also gives us a restricted window to peek at an early pakistani society and wonder about the protagonist's prejudices and sympathies with regards to, say, the prostitute and the anglo-indian nurse.

okay, now: you're right the story did move me as a whole. but the reason i decided to translate this was three fold: the complexity produced by unsual syntax/run-on-sentence; cultural complexity its humanism. also i have had intellectual problems with ikram saheb; though he is a very secular/non religious kind of person, he is still a product of colonial thinking without being aware of it. i suspect he respects certain aspects of feudalism and patriarchy colors his sense of universal humanism.

later,
- moazzam