indian sweets in england, split from "zaika in london" Options

[Swati]

Chef Dwivedi of Zaika:

I don't do rasamalai. And I don't do rasagullas. I don't eat them. Nobody does, unless it's at a shaadhi... I'd make a crème brulee or chocolate samosas instead.

Umm......even an average rasmalai or roshogolla is hard to make. You need to be an expert specialist mishtir kaarigar or halwai to make truly remarkable rasmalai or roshogolla. There's a reason why Chef Dwivedi sticks to his chocolate samosas.

Back at the Cinnamon Club, they do serve a rogan josh, for which they import a spice called the rattan jyot, the bark of a tree that imparts the dark red colour to the lamb curry. 'Nobody knows about it or has seen it in this country,' Vivek Singh says.

I thought the red colour in Roghan Josh came from cockscomb flowers. Couldn't find any references online to the use of ratanjot in Kashmiri cuisine. Dark, where are you - do you know anything about this?

Red chillies are brought in from Rajasthan; pepper, cinnamon and cardamom from Kerala; mustard from Bengal; rattan jyot from Kashmir; and rock moss from Hyderabad. This last ingredient, which looks exactly as it sounds, doesn't taste of anything, but brings out the favour of biryanis. 'A real biryani requires a high level of skill,' Vivek explains, 'because the marinated meat is covered with rice that is already two-thirds cooked. Then it is sealed and steamed so that the raw meat cooks in the same time as the rice. It needs a large quantity to work.'

What is this rock moss thing?

Oh and while it is perfectly alright to make kachchey gosht ki biryani, that is certainly not the most popular style or the first thing that would spring to mind when people think "real biryani". Most people prefer pre-cooking the meat, either dry or extracting yakhni to simmer the biryani in.


Edit to add: that is certainly "not" the most popular...............

This post has been edited by Swati: May 7 2007, 09:05 AM

[arnab]

i'm surprised to hear that no one eats rasgullas or rasmalai except at weddings. do these people have no sense of shame? does no one ever write in to these newspapers to correct this crap?

[ViShVa]

i'm surprised to hear that no one eats rasgullas or rasmalai except at weddings. do these people have no sense of shame? does no one ever write in to these newspapers to correct this crap?

Guess they eat shrikhand instead on a routine basis... what say?

[deedawar]

I don't eat rasgullahs or ras mallai. Do not like them. What is shrikhand. Would a Punjabi recognise it?

[notsogifted]

depends on the punjaabi in question

keep scrolling...

[deedawar]

What is it made from? Is it anything like firni?

[notsogifted]

this time, on principle, i refuse to dig up threads for you. you just *have* to start using the search button sometime!


pssst, a recipe was there too in that thread in bague's post.

This post has been edited by notsogifted: May 7 2007, 09:42 AM

[deedawar]

Be like that then.

Forcing me to learn new things at my age. Have you no respect for your elders.

Okay. I will exercise my few grey cells.

[armagod]

Umm......even an average rasmalai or roshogolla is hard to make. You need to be an expert specialist mishtir kaarigar or halwai to make truly remarkable rasmalai or roshogolla. There's a reason why Chef Dwivedi sticks to his chocolate samosas.

Actually there are dozens of places in London that dish out decent rasmalai, it's the most popular by far of the desi sweets here to the extent of being a near-automatic choice for many. So getting hold of somebody to make it or to train the staff up is not really an issue when you consider the intricacy of whatever else turns up on the dessert platter in its place.

[shahpar]

Chef Dwivedi of Zaika:

I don't do rasamalai. And I don't do rasagullas. I don't eat them. Nobody does, unless it's at a shaadhi... I'd make a crème brulee or chocolate samosas instead.

Umm......even an average rasmalai or roshogolla is hard to make. You need to be an expert specialist mishtir kaarigar or halwai to make truly remarkable rasmalai or roshogolla. There's a reason why Chef Dwivedi sticks to his chocolate samosas.

chocolate samosas would look much more impressive in a newspaper write up to UK audiences compared to rasmalai/roshogollas, which people are more used to eating in less fancy "curry houses".

-shahpar

[Rumali Roti]

I love chocolate and I love samosas, but this sounds terrible! Are they fried? Has anyone tried them?

[Swati]

Actually there are dozens of places in London that dish out decent rasmalai, it's the most popular by far of the desi sweets here to the extent of being a near-automatic choice for many. So getting hold of somebody to make it or to train the staff up is not really an issue when you consider the intricacy of whatever else turns up on the dessert platter in its place.

And how does this rasmalai compare to a fairly well-regarded sweet-shop in India? Are you sure this is being made inhouse and not coming out of a can? Also, how many speciality Indian sweet shops exist in London?

Most of the speciality Indian sweet shops in California are awful. The most I'd order there is a jalebi because that's kind of hard to screw up. But the rasmalai looks very uninviting. Perhaps all the trained mithai kaarigar went to England instead.

[deedawar]

We have Ambala in London which is considered to be the best. Their mithaii is very good as are their kebabs etc. They also have many branches outside London in major towns. There are many many other shops also. We arewell supplied. They sell practically everything one would find in India and Pakistan, including baqarkhani and sohan halwa.

[armagod]

And how does this rasmalai compare to a fairly well-regarded sweet-shop in India? Are you sure this is being made inhouse and not coming out of a can? Also, how many speciality Indian sweet shops exist in London?

It compares very well, actually, because the target market is mostly desis and they have a lot of choice. When sold for outside consumption, rasmalai tends to be sold fresh and not canned. Even in India, I don't believe I've ever seen it canned the way I've seen rasagullas and other sweets, but maybe that's because fresh stuff was always available.

There must be dozens of specialty Indian and Pakistani sweet shops here. The desi areas I frequent would probably account for 10 or so?

Roshna, the choc samosas are indeed fried and are enough of a success that they are being copied by other chefs too. I've only tried em once, though, as I've always gone for something different on each visit.

[arnab]

let me say first that the rosgullas (roshogullas) available at the best places in delhi do not, in my opinion, bear comparing to even decent places in cal. i have not of course eaten rosgullas in london, but my london cousins and uncle and aunt don't seem at any rate to think that the quality of the product available in london approaches that of cal.

[Trips]

for some boston-based philistines, roshogullas in k.c. dey's or haldiram's tin cans are good enough. we do draw the line at "yr. of manufacture: 2000," though.

<ducking to avoid brickbats and gaalis>

[deedawar]

I have decided to make some shrikhand in the near future. Do any restaurants serve it?

This post has been edited by deedawar: May 8 2007, 01:01 AM

[arnab]

I have decided to make some shrikhand in the near future. Do any restaurants serve it?

is there no thread about shrikhand in the general food forum?

the food forums are already vast and unwieldy--i do wish folks would be a little more considerate of the amount of work shanta and loislane have to already do to keep things streamlined. a little searching before posting can eliminate the need for merging and splitting and moving of posts and threads. the other option is to have every thread become impossible to navigate.

[Swati]

let me say first that the rosgullas (roshogullas) available at the best places in delhi do not, in my opinion, bear comparing to even decent places in cal. i have not of course eaten rosgullas in london, but my london cousins and uncle and aunt don't seem at any rate to think that the quality of the product available in london approaches that of cal.

I second this. There really isn't any good roshogolla to be found in Delhi, even the Chittaranjan Park sweet shops. Let me repeat - making stellar roshogollas is a rare skill and very few sweet shops manage to get it right.

When sold for outside consumption, rasmalai tends to be sold fresh and not canned. Even in India, I don't believe I've ever seen it canned the way I've seen rasagullas and other sweets, but maybe that's because fresh stuff was always available.

Armagod, a fairly common practice is to take canned roshogollas (and I believe Haldiram has these oblong white sweets resembling roshogollas), and dunk them in sweetened milk. Instant rasmalai!!

Edit to add: I figured out what that oblong thingie was. It is what Haldiram labels chamcham on its cans, which bears no resemblance whatsoever to a real chamcham. But then Haldiram also sells Rajbhog flavoured with saffron, rosewater and what not. A friend of mine (Bihari incidentally) went into a rant over Haldiram's take on Bengali sweets while talking to me recently. Hats off to Haldiram's marketing acumen though.



This post has been edited by Swati: May 8 2007, 02:43 AM

[ViShVa]

I stand to be corrected.

IMO London sweet corners are decent enough if you have a yen for Guj/Punj sweets they turn out reasonably decent barfis, ladwas, et al - they are not a patch on the Bora Muslim sweet corners in Bom particularly Ramzan time... the sinful cream centered stuff. Bengali sweets are reputed to be a sublime mile apart... according to the Bongs I trust and know.

As for bong stuff, as a suburban Bombayite, Banarsi Sweets in Khar near the station does reasonable rosgullas, but my Bandra/Khar bong pals would be zapped if anyone claims they were better than Calcutta's offerings. My only first hand experience of Cal sweets is the condiment suppliers and streets in Amar Prem (the movie) - but then I last saw that in the cinema in 1972 or whenever it was released.

But I can say with my hand on my heart... the VERY best jalebi I have ever had is from a family place called Surti Sweet Mart of Uganda fame - they closed their retail operations five years ago and just do bulk orders from home in N London. Their jalebis are better than any I have had in Desh. NO artificial colouring, badaam pista laden and not over sweet. The orange is from pure saffron - no other colouring - subtle and brilliant with long gathias and shallow fried green chillies with some farsi purios and masala chai for a Sunday brunch...

The Scot chippies do a deep fried mars bar in a fish 'n chips batter - guess teh samosa a la chocolat must be similar - to each her/his own, I guess - but when I grow up, I hope to try both! My Zaika experience was over five years ago, when I rated it high. Now I will go, as long as an Indian is taking me out - given the strength of the Ru pee - what say all you generous proud Bom/Del pals of mine - anyone alive?

[Sue Darlow]

We have Ambala in London which is considered to be the best. Their mithaii is very good as are their kebabs etc. They also have many branches outside London in major towns. There are many many other shops also. We arewell supplied. They sell practically everything one would find in India and Pakistan, including baqarkhani and sohan halwa.

Talking of my experiences of Ambala sweets a decade or two ago, or more, their gulab jamun and jalebi were OK, but their barfi etc were so far from the delicious stuff you can get in Bombay, that I never bothered. They tasted like they were made by short cut or something. Milk powder? Something. They didn't have the true taste of reduced (slowly boiled) milk.

Yet, a year ago, my sister was told in Bombay that some folks there regularly asked their relatives from London to bring back Ambala sweets for them, which I find impossible to believe. With Parsi Dairy Farm, Brijwasi Sweets, Punjabi Chandu Halwai, Dayaram Damodar Mithaiwala etc, available to them, what could they be thinking?



Edited to change "actually asked their relatives" to "regularly asked their relatives"

This post has been edited by Sue Darlow: May 8 2007, 10:30 AM

[hibiscus]

Okay, I'm sold. You buy me this:

But I can say with my hand on my heart... the VERY best jalebi I have ever had is from a family place called Surti Sweet Mart of Uganda fame - they closed their retail operations five years ago and just do bulk orders from home in N London. Their jalebis are better than any I have had in Desh. NO artificial colouring, badaam pista laden and not over sweet. The orange is from pure saffron - no other colouring - subtle and brilliant with long gathias and shallow fried green chillies with some farsi purios and masala chai for a Sunday brunch...

And I'll buy you this:

My Zaika experience was over five years ago, when I rated it high. Now I will go, as long as an Indian is taking me out - given the strength of the Rupee - what say all you generous proud Bom/Del pals of mine - anyone alive?

[armagod]

Armagod, a fairly common practice is to take canned roshogollas (and I believe Haldiram has these oblong white sweets resembling roshogollas), and dunk them in sweetened milk. Instant rasmalai!!

That sounds disgusting!

The best rasmalai I've had ever, anywhere, was at a wedding in west London.. wish I'd asked who the caterers were.

[armagod]

The Scot chippies do a deep fried mars bar in a fish 'n chips batter - guess teh samosa a la chocolat must be similar

Not much chocolate in a mars bar, is there? All sugar...

[Jenni]

At this point I feel the need to raise the profile of a sweet shop in the UK that is outside of London!

Bristol Sweetmart, the best of many Indian food shops in Bristol, does a pretty good job with Indian sweets. They have the usual (and rather unimpressive) boxed and tinned stuff in the main store, but they also have fresh sweets in their deli section. The manager told me that they don't actually make them themselves, they buy them in from someone else. But they are really quite good, especially since they don't just do the same old ladoo and barfi that most places in the UK seem to rely on. My fav sweets are all milk based, and they sell a good range of peda, as well as rasgulla, rasmalai and chum chums. The chum chums are actually really nice, but the rasgulla isn't anywhere near as good as the stuff I ate in Kolkata.