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| arnab |
Mar 18 2008, 11:28 AM
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#1
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![]() bandwidth glutton Group: founding members Posts: 15125 Joined: 21-July 04 From: northfield, minnesota Member No.: 1 |
another subcontinent is very happy to present "monsoon rains", a short story from moazzam sheikh's upcoming collection of short stories, "the idol lover, and other stories from pakistan". this story will be our featured presentation till may 2, 2008, and will be available thereafter in our archive of written features.
moazzam will participate in the discussion here. we invite your comments, questions and criticisms. -------------------- yeh sab kya ho raha hai, beta duryodhan? arnab@anothersubcontinent.com |
| deedawar |
Mar 19 2008, 01:50 AM
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#2
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member Group: bandwidth eaters Posts: 3136 Joined: 3-October 06 Member No.: 2891 |
I liked it! I will read it one more time before I post any comments.
-------------------- "There is a path to Truth. From ignorance to relative knowledge. From relative knowledge to an awareness of the limitation of such knowledge. And finally, we pass from that which we recognize as loosely associated intelligence to a reality of Being." -- Richard Rose
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| hibiscus |
Mar 25 2008, 09:58 AM
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#3
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![]() member Group: bandwidth eaters Posts: 5909 Joined: 10-April 05 From: Bombay via Singapore Member No.: 401 |
Kya hua bhaiyya? I've just read the story and came here thinking there would be a goodly discussion already. Is everyone else also busy-like?
• This is of course a completely subjective reaction, but on first reading I found it depressing. "Not another dreary slice of life in the sub-continent. Why is it always so frikking sad and miserable and devoid of any hope or happiness?" Well hey, life is like that, isn't it? Perhaps I just read too much of it, or maybe I haven't found much of the happy writing yet. I probably need escape from the real dreariness of real life! Moazzam, hope there is more, and hope it's more cheerful. • I'd like to know more about Masud's feelings and thoughts. Is he really depressed? Why is he afraid when he goes to the Christian basti? • Is prostitution a common practice among the Christian women? Does Nasima have other customers, and doesn't this bother Masud as the presence of Nasima's husband apparently does? More questions may arise on further reading, of course. And maybe some will get answered! (Not sure if it's the display on this computer I'm using, but in the story the dashes and apostrophes are appearing as â€.) -------------------- |
| moazzam |
Mar 25 2008, 12:36 PM
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#4
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![]() maha contributor Group: founding members Posts: 749 Joined: 22-July 04 Member No.: 5 |
hibiscus, hi!
and thanks for offering comments. who is masud? well, i wrote this story in 91 and it was published in a local literary magazine in 92. the composite identity of masud's been hounding me for many years. does he represent the collective loneliness and anger of my generation? or some other emotion i can't put my finger on. i feel there's a bit of my father in it and a bit of male exploitation that cuts across class divide. the sexual transgression in pakistani society is quite prevalent and complex. often it is not prostitution for the lack of a better word if i understand it somewhat correctly. i have tried to explore effects of extreme poverty and extreme loneliness in this story. the female character is loosely based on someone who swept and cleaned floors. - moazzam -------------------- "The end of the Soviet-U.S. rivalry will not end the pattern of warfare or violence because the real issue will remain: control of resources.
(Eqbal Ahmad) |
| hibiscus |
Mar 25 2008, 01:35 PM
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#5
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![]() member Group: bandwidth eaters Posts: 5909 Joined: 10-April 05 From: Bombay via Singapore Member No.: 401 |
Thanks Moazzam!
I realised belatedly that it is rude of me not to say I liked it (I mean that - not out of politeness Did you mean that prostitution (iow sexual intercourse as business) is practised in a non-organised way? Is it accepted, tacitly or overtly - and if so then why the shame and loathing, and the jeering by Jumma? The male exploitation comes across of course, but in Masud's case I saw it as being - somewhat, sort of - mitigated by his offer to marry Nasima. -------------------- |
| moazzam |
Mar 26 2008, 11:52 PM
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#6
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![]() maha contributor Group: founding members Posts: 749 Joined: 22-July 04 Member No.: 5 |
Thanks Moazzam! I realised belatedly that it is rude of me not to say I liked it (I mean that - not out of politeness not at all Did you mean that prostitution (iow sexual intercourse as business) is practised in a non-organised way? Is it accepted, tacitly or overtly - and if so then why the shame and loathing, and the jeering by Jumma? there are also genuine sexual attractions/typical pull the youngsters feel for the "other". i clearly remember that one of my younger neighbors, a young boy of ninth class, was able to start a touching/kissing/fondling type of thing with the daughter of the cleaning woman. the woman had two very stunning looking smita patel kinda young girls of the same age. you can see, even though this was not prostitution by any means since there is no sex or compensation invovled but the power relations only flowed in one direction. it would be very hard to reverse the roles. he seduced because he could fake at being lazy and sleep late in his room till she came into the room to sweep. eye contact or whatever that established that desire was mutual and the touching begins. in some cases, depending on the strictness of the hosuehold, mother's gaze, this sort of thing could lead to sexual contact, sometimes paid, sometimes not. The male exploitation comes across of course, but in Masud's case I saw it as being - somewhat, sort of - mitigated by his offer to marry Nasima. well, conflicted hero/ anti-hero/ conscience of the society and all those funny ideas create masud in my opinion. in my stories i seem to be exploring men's periodic inability to love, or separate love from sexual desire. - moazzam -------------------- "The end of the Soviet-U.S. rivalry will not end the pattern of warfare or violence because the real issue will remain: control of resources.
(Eqbal Ahmad) |
| moazzam |
Mar 26 2008, 11:56 PM
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#7
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![]() maha contributor Group: founding members Posts: 749 Joined: 22-July 04 Member No.: 5 |
well if you like helping small/independent bookstores, you may call melissa at 415-621-6772 at bibiohead bookstore in sf and order the book. she'll gladly mail the book very quickly.
- moazzam -------------------- "The end of the Soviet-U.S. rivalry will not end the pattern of warfare or violence because the real issue will remain: control of resources.
(Eqbal Ahmad) |
| vAtraT |
Mar 27 2008, 01:23 AM
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#8
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![]() member Group: bandwidth eaters Posts: 2689 Joined: 21-January 05 From: here to (unholy) Trinity Member No.: 240 |
I hope someday to have something to say about all the hanky-panky in Moazzam's stories. What my PC acculturation has taught me to think of as sexual exploitation of the economically powerless -- Moazzam writes about frankly and, apparently, authentically.
And, despite the recurring sense of a power imbalance in the relationships, the male protagonists are themselves rarely in control of their destinies, either. That complexity is what's attracting me to them, because it allows one to get inside the character and the story. More, though, when I'm done with the book. |
| hibiscus |
Mar 27 2008, 01:15 PM
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#9
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![]() member Group: bandwidth eaters Posts: 5909 Joined: 10-April 05 From: Bombay via Singapore Member No.: 401 |
Thanks Moazzam! I'm horrible on the phone so am emailing (their website, for general info, is http://www.bibliohead.com/) to place the order.
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| moazzam |
Mar 28 2008, 10:11 AM
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#10
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![]() maha contributor Group: founding members Posts: 749 Joined: 22-July 04 Member No.: 5 |
hibiscus, that's great. only if there were countless people like you in this world
vAtraT, what to say, i can only feel elated, and grateful, that there are folks out there who are reading my stories so perceptively. - moazzam -------------------- "The end of the Soviet-U.S. rivalry will not end the pattern of warfare or violence because the real issue will remain: control of resources.
(Eqbal Ahmad) |
| hibiscus |
Mar 28 2008, 10:18 AM
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#11
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![]() member Group: bandwidth eaters Posts: 5909 Joined: 10-April 05 From: Bombay via Singapore Member No.: 401 |
hibiscus, that's great. only if there were countless people like you in this world Ghee shakkar! I have been saying this very same thing for so long now that my throat is totally horse. Let it go on record. OTOH, imagine countless people like me. On topic, just a note: Bibliohead's site says one can buy their books online through Abebooks. A search for The Idol Lover (using various permutations) on Abebooks results in nothing. So maybe it is not yet up for online sale. I'll update when I hear back from Melissa though. -------------------- |
| moazzam |
Mar 31 2008, 12:46 AM
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#12
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![]() maha contributor Group: founding members Posts: 749 Joined: 22-July 04 Member No.: 5 |
I'll update when I hear back from Melissa though. hi there, did you hear back from melissa? if not, then i need to fix this mess of this sorta thing taking too long. thanks. - moazzam -------------------- "The end of the Soviet-U.S. rivalry will not end the pattern of warfare or violence because the real issue will remain: control of resources.
(Eqbal Ahmad) |
| hibiscus |
Mar 31 2008, 08:27 AM
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#13
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![]() member Group: bandwidth eaters Posts: 5909 Joined: 10-April 05 From: Bombay via Singapore Member No.: 401 |
I'll update when I hear back from Melissa though. hi there, did you hear back from melissa? if not, then i need to fix this mess of this sorta thing taking too long. thanks. - moazzam Yup, I was about to post, I did hear back from her, very promptly. I have to send her my address and credit card details now. -------------------- |
| frangipani |
Mar 31 2008, 10:17 AM
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#14
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![]() bandwidth eater Group: moderators Posts: 5054 Joined: 17-May 05 Member No.: 486 |
Hi Moazzam, very wrenching story, very oppressive mood of the clouds and rain and hopelessness, the bleakness and relentlessness very beautifully evoked. It's short and pithy and packs a punch. You can't help feeling both disgust and sympathy for Masud. I look forward to reading the whole collection, and congratulations!
I was wondering about "guest for a few days" - did you wish to retain the flavour of "chand dinoN kaa mehmaan" or a similar Punjabi phrase? I don't want to ask any sociological questions about Christians and Muslims in Pakistan, because I realise that this is not seeking to represent Religious Relations in any grand sense, but still, I liked how it was located in an existing milieu of prejudice, suspicion and exploitation, and yet mutual dependence. At points I felt that those cleavages might have been left a bit unexplained, for the reader to discover, as you did by having Nasima show an unexpected sympathy (affection?) for Masud. For that reason, the one jarring point for me was the somewhat explicit exchange about Muslims and Christians between Jumma Khan and Masud. But this is a strictly personal preference. Above all I loved the mood the story created. -------------------- I'd rather have an orchestra in front of me, than a helicopter behind.
- Sadanand |
| vAtraT |
Apr 2 2008, 12:12 AM
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#15
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![]() member Group: bandwidth eaters Posts: 2689 Joined: 21-January 05 From: here to (unholy) Trinity Member No.: 240 |
Just finished The Cow, a story about two boys in pre-Independence Lahore, one Indian and the other his master's son. The richness of detail, both of the place and of their minds, took my breath away. Too, what appears to be the hallmark of many of Moazzam's stories -- servitudinous, unbalanced relationships in which the protagonist in nonetheless painted in 3-D.
How he can do justice to a time and place of 75 years ago, I have no idea! It is obvious Moazzam is a born storyteller. Rush to that store in Berkeley and get your copy -- the first 50,000 are probably gone and the second printing is likely to be snatched up like spicy hot kheema samosas. |
| moazzam |
Apr 2 2008, 06:08 AM
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#16
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![]() maha contributor Group: founding members Posts: 749 Joined: 22-July 04 Member No.: 5 |
Hi Moazzam, very wrenching story, very oppressive mood of the clouds and rain and hopelessness, the bleakness and relentlessness very beautifully evoked. It's short and pithy and packs a punch. You can't help feeling both disgust and sympathy for Masud. I look forward to reading the whole collection, and congratulations! thanks, and yes i do hope you read the book (since my livelihood depends on it I was wondering about "guest for a few days" - did you wish to retain the flavour of "chand dinoN kaa mehmaan" or a similar Punjabi phrase? bull's eye! I don't want to ask any sociological questions about Christians and Muslims in Pakistan, because I realise that this is not seeking to represent Religious Relations in any grand sense, but still, I liked how it was located in an existing milieu of prejudice, suspicion and exploitation, and yet mutual dependence. At points I felt that those cleavages might have been left a bit unexplained, for the reader to discover, as you did by having Nasima show an unexpected sympathy (affection?) for Masud. For that reason, the one jarring point for me was the somewhat explicit exchange about Muslims and Christians between Jumma Khan and Masud. that's very perceptive of you, frangipani. that sentence has been a thorn in the eye of the storyteller for many years. i kept it for it shows a writer's progressive as a craftsperson. it was my first story published and i had been educating myself mostly through western lens. in the register the story is set, a normal Jumma or anyone else would not say such a thing or would say, either through jokes, something that carries more nuance. but, also, what might have been influencing me at the time, perhaps, were attacks on the christian community in pakistan and accusations of blasphemy. at the time i may not have made a direct connection, but if you are away and young and most of your friends are jews and christians and hindus and athiests, it was probably easy to succumb to the notion of bad muslim vs good muslim. also, i think, Jumma's crude remark is not aimed at the woman but Masud. one a different layer, it is a male banter at the cost of the "other" or women. thanks again, - moazzam This post has been edited by moazzam: Apr 2 2008, 06:10 AM -------------------- "The end of the Soviet-U.S. rivalry will not end the pattern of warfare or violence because the real issue will remain: control of resources.
(Eqbal Ahmad) |
| moazzam |
Apr 2 2008, 06:19 AM
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#17
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![]() maha contributor Group: founding members Posts: 749 Joined: 22-July 04 Member No.: 5 |
Just finished The Cow, a story about two boys in pre-Independence Lahore, one Indian and the other his master's son. The richness of detail, both of the place and of their minds, took my breath away. Too, what appears to be the hallmark of many of Moazzam's stories -- servitudinous, unbalanced relationships in which the protagonist in nonetheless painted in 3-D. How he can do justice to a time and place of 75 years ago, I have no idea! It is obvious Moazzam is a born storyteller. Rush to that store in Berkeley and get your copy -- the first 50,000 are probably gone and the second printing is likely to be snatched up like spicy hot kheema samosas. dear vAtraT, there are no 50,000 copies but apke moNh meN ghee, shakkar! if that ever happend, the ticket to paris is on me it is a difficult story and it has sat with me for close to 10 years. i never could get it right. the whole story started with a sudden image of a herd of cows covered with some white powder sliding into water at one end and emerging at the other with their powder gone and black shiny skin revealed. that's all i had, no judge, no pre-partition lahore, no william, no vidia and once i sat down to write it things changed of their own volition. the relative success of my book really depends on my early readers, so i really appreciate your insight and comments. thanks, - moazzam -------------------- "The end of the Soviet-U.S. rivalry will not end the pattern of warfare or violence because the real issue will remain: control of resources.
(Eqbal Ahmad) |
| frangipani |
Apr 2 2008, 07:51 AM
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#18
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![]() bandwidth eater Group: moderators Posts: 5054 Joined: 17-May 05 Member No.: 486 |
it was my first story published and... I had no idea! That makes it quite amazing, wah! Thanks for the explanation. Will post some thoughts on the others once I've read them. -------------------- I'd rather have an orchestra in front of me, than a helicopter behind.
- Sadanand |
| ajit |
Apr 8 2008, 04:05 AM
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#19
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![]() bandwidth eater Group: founding members Posts: 4926 Joined: 21-July 04 Member No.: 2 |
Moazzam, is the name Vidia mere chance or symbolic of something ? By itself it is an unusual name for a boy and an even more unusual spelling.
The intended symbolism seems clear enough. |
| arnab |
Apr 8 2008, 04:16 AM
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#20
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![]() bandwidth glutton Group: founding members Posts: 15125 Joined: 21-July 04 From: northfield, minnesota Member No.: 1 |
maybe a tribute to sir vidia?
-------------------- yeh sab kya ho raha hai, beta duryodhan? arnab@anothersubcontinent.com |
| moazzam |
Apr 9 2008, 11:08 AM
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#21
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![]() maha contributor Group: founding members Posts: 749 Joined: 22-July 04 Member No.: 5 |
Moazzam, is the name Vidia mere chance or symbolic of something ? By itself it is an unusual name for a boy and an even more unusual spelling. The intended symbolism seems clear enough. on a certain level cow is one of my most complex stories. sometimes a writer makes an unconscious choice and that paves the way for the story to unfold. i don't know at what point i chose that name. but the connection you and arnab seem to be making is a good one let me give you another example. some read my book's final draft and asked the name of one character be changed in the story 'ache' since it was his name and that that name did/does not exist outside his being. it was a name made up and he said googling would only throw up him and none else. i realized, as i obliged, that unconsciously i had borrowed his name. the arrival of vidia is more complex, i believe. i hope those who read the story cow can cross swords some day -moazzam -------------------- "The end of the Soviet-U.S. rivalry will not end the pattern of warfare or violence because the real issue will remain: control of resources.
(Eqbal Ahmad) |
| vAtraT |
Apr 9 2008, 12:31 PM
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#22
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![]() member Group: bandwidth eaters Posts: 2689 Joined: 21-January 05 From: here to (unholy) Trinity Member No.: 240 |
[Someone] read my book's final draft and asked the name of one character be changed in the story 'ache' since it was his name and that that name did/does not exist outside his being. it was a name made up and he said googling would only throw up him and none else. i realized, as i obliged, that unconsciously i had borrowed his name. And yet, when Naipaul asked you to change the name of the boy for the very same reason, you declined! How unfair!Another artifact in Moazzam’s stories, that of an indefinite, un-crisp ending, because it appears to have been employed in multiple stories, seems to be deliberate. Moazzam will set me straight, of course, but my own interpretation of the purpose of it is that it makes the reader dwell that much longer on the ambience, the conditions precipitating in the ending. The fourth story, The Barbarians and the Mule, is of an Israeli post at the boundary of some occupied Palestinian land. The protagonist is a young recruit in the Israeli army proving himself in the eyes of his colleagues by being ruthless with a hapless old man and his son who wander into his purview. The usual Moazzam ploy, of the protagonist’s ambiguous, wavering control of his destiny is here, too. But, in addition, there is also an almost invitation to extrapolate the ending in one of multiple ways about what happens after the story ends. Don’t know if this is deliberate on Moazzam’s part, but it does make the story that much more interesting. |
| moazzam |
Apr 30 2008, 10:05 AM
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#23
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![]() maha contributor Group: founding members Posts: 749 Joined: 22-July 04 Member No.: 5 |
a new friend who came to my reading in berkeley politely pointed out after the group split from post-reading coffee session that barbers in lahore (and i am paraphrasing) don't say "array". i haven't stopped thinking/wondering about the constructive criticism/issues regarding memory/. he and i are both from lahore, he grew up in the most upper middle class neighborhood (which also has pockets of middle/lower income localities) and i grew up in neighborhood(s) which were/are pre-dominantly lower income clusters here and there dotted with mansions of rich actors and others.
chances are a punjabi speaking barber won't say array but then he might, as my father, kashmiri punjabi, would address someone affectionately, array maulana, kya halaat haiN? or some such stuff. it is possible, even though masud, carries a fraction of my father in him, my father's speech is influencing jumma khan, because one of the families (his neighbor for many years) were barbers and he mingled with them on daily basis and by such extension i knew the family and was at friendly terms though i resented his attachment to them, like having afternoon tea with them every other day or even when we moved out, he'd go there to watch indian movies on amritsar channel. - moazzam -------------------- "The end of the Soviet-U.S. rivalry will not end the pattern of warfare or violence because the real issue will remain: control of resources.
(Eqbal Ahmad) |
| arnab |
Apr 30 2008, 10:43 AM
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#24
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![]() bandwidth glutton Group: founding members Posts: 15125 Joined: 21-July 04 From: northfield, minnesota Member No.: 1 |
it's interesting to read your takes on these issues, moazzam. my gut reaction is that this kind of documentary accuracy is not particularly interesting to me--characters can be exceptions, not representative. but i like reading the way you work your way through the questions.
-------------------- yeh sab kya ho raha hai, beta duryodhan? arnab@anothersubcontinent.com |
| dgg0lel |
May 9 2008, 02:58 PM
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#25
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member Group: regular contributors Posts: 53 Joined: 1-September 04 Member No.: 111 |
Hello, have not been writing on AS for some time, but Moazzam kindly sent me his book to review, and I thought to just add it in here, for the discussion.
Review: Moazzam Sheikh – The Idol Lover and Other Stories from Pakistan This collection of short stories has a very distinctive voice, and a particularly masculine consciousness. For such a slim volume, it packs in a surprising amount of sex, lust, violence, profanity. But more than that, it packs in unsettling amounts of longing, restlessness, anger, fear, menace, confusion. The first half of the collection is mostly set in the East, and comes across as a series of snapshots, capturing various male protagonists; apartment dweller, soldier, the son of a gardener, etc. Each protagonist may be in different arenas of life, but the uniting theme is that each seems lost, flailing about in their lives for purpose and meaning, living vividly while watching themselves with dissatisfaction, discontent and an inarticulate longing for an unexpressed, undefined, only dimly glimpsed, alternative. This in part contributes to the complex texture of these stories, which are written with such a sense of immediacy, and yet have a will-o’-wisp quality to them. The first story, ‘Monsoon Rains’, is perhaps the most unforgettable. Not because of its protagonist, who is such an everyday character that one could easily ‘pass him by again without recognition’, as are indeed all the protagonists in this collection. The charm of Sheikh’s writing is precisely in these very average, ordinary characters, whose experiences are rendered so vividly in his stories, whose internal turbulences and dramas are played out in the narrative with immediacy and violence. No, the charm of Monsoon Rains is in both its structure and its selection of narratives. It depicts the sordid with exceptional beauty and translucence, focusing in on minute details until the intensity of the focus reveals the hidden fragility and terrifyingly knife-edge-balance contained within those details. It is the atmosphere Moazzam Sheikh is able to create which set him apart from so many other short story writers. Amidst the mess and grime and grey-browns of the landscape, this author brings us flashes of colour, as troubling as they are compelling. The 2nd half of the collection features 4 stories of diasporic Pakistanis in USA. Once again, the stories have a very internal resonance to them, following the workings of the protagonist’s mind, observing the external details and how they impact upon him, while constantly threaded through with the musings and interpretations of the protagonist. That internal, mental, quality of Sheikh’s writings has an echo of Anita Desai’s work (such as Fire on the Mountain, Clear Light of Day, etc), though the stream of consciousness here is much less feminine and flowing, and much more jagged and stark. Sheikh’s depiction of a diasporic person’s sense of alienation, confusion, loss, and longing are quite different from those which have gone before in the genre; this depiction pushes the boat further, dramatizes the sense of displacement and despair to a higher level, and is charged with an undercurrent of the dark and the sardonic, which characterizes this writing voice. However, not every story in this collection was of the same standard. ‘Snakeskins’, for example, was one which merged the real with the surreal, which would have worked if the story had a clearer purpose or meaning within it. ‘The Idol Lover’ was another which lacked the elegance of the rest; it is one of the longer stories in this collection, and very delicately conveyed a particular experience and character, but its form was problematic and threw its own internal rhythm off beat a little. That said, the majority of the stories in this collection had a luminescence which draws the reader in, an originality which renders it a good reading experience, and a strength of personality combining dark humour and a very light touch. Lisa. |
| Kunjal |
May 21 2008, 01:29 PM
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#26
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member Group: regular contributors Posts: 57 Joined: 17-May 08 Member No.: 26255 |
Moazzam,
I read Monsoon Rains last night on AS... It certainly packs a punch!! Though it left me yearning for more, I would not term it as a happy read!! The poverty of the red tile building and the christian basti was pretty glum and paired with the longing and frustration of Masud it ppainted a very gloomy picture... Though I do believe that the proposal of Masud to Nassima was more out of lonliness and poverty than out of love or lust.. It certainly was a very good read!! One question: Where could I buy the entire book in dubai? Kunjal |
| moazzam |
May 24 2008, 04:50 AM
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#27
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![]() maha contributor Group: founding members Posts: 749 Joined: 22-July 04 Member No.: 5 |
Moazzam, I read Monsoon Rains last night on AS... It certainly packs a punch!! Though it left me yearning for more, I would not term it as a happy read!! The poverty of the red tile building and the christian basti was pretty glum and paired with the longing and frustration of Masud it ppainted a very gloomy picture... Though I do believe that the proposal of Masud to Nassima was more out of lonliness and poverty than out of love or lust.. It certainly was a very good read!! One question: Where could I buy the entire book in dubai? Kunjal Dear Kunjal, Thanks for reading the story and offering comments wherein you've touched on something I grapple with often in my stories: assuming a feeling to be true while under the influence of an emotion, whether it is sexual desire or loneliness or greed or inferiority complex and so on. Another example pops up in my head: In the story Ache included in the collection, a young Pakistani foreign student is infatuated (which he translates as love) with an Indian woman but has never managed to speak to her. Then, sudden and unexpected, he ends up with a blonde hooker courtesy of desi roommates and he catches himself telling her he loves her. So loneliness is certainly a part of it - but I have been interested in the weak moral fibre some "men" are made of. I believe society often creates conditions where men and women (but I feel men more so) grow up surrounded by physical and psychological uncertainties (which often result from economic lack of stability) that make them opportunists. Of course what confuses all of that is the sheer power of sex and sexuality when it catches you unarmed. Well, have you tried buying it from Amazon? Let me know. If that doesn't work, I'll figure something out since my livelihood depends on it Thanks again. - Moazzam This post has been edited by moazzam: Jun 17 2008, 11:24 AM -------------------- "The end of the Soviet-U.S. rivalry will not end the pattern of warfare or violence because the real issue will remain: control of resources.
(Eqbal Ahmad) |
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